STAR GATE | Larry Ellison, co-founder of Oracle, has proposed using AI-powered surveillance to monitor police and citizens

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I wondered if anyone has any thoughts about Larry Ellison’s ideas around ai being used as surveillance. —it feels like a fundamental misdirection of what AI’s potential could be.
Using AI for surveillance treats symptoms, not causes. It assumes that monitoring people into submission will create a “better” society, but it doesn’t address why crime happens in the first place. Inequality, poverty, trauma, and systemic neglect are at the root of so much harm, and they’re things that AI could meaningfully help to solve if we approached it with the right intention.

For example, AI could be used to analyze data on disparities in education, healthcare, or employment and then suggest targeted interventions. It could predict where mental health resources are most urgently needed or identify patterns that help policymakers invest in communities before crises escalate.

That’s transformative potential.

Footage of Larry’s point of view starts around 11.47 on Matt Wolf’s video https://youtu.be/JPcxiWOOj2E?si=C9zqh7NsG9YLMZ0N

I wrote a blog piece here about it. Star Gate - StarQuest Media

I’m wondering if this is a debate that is open or if Larry is convinced his plan is the only way forward to alleviate crime?

Ai’s potential to alleviate the causes of crime, suffering and inequality is something I’ve heard Sam Altman speak about often.

Just seems like quite an important discussion for us all.

Anyone else flagging this?

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δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν
Socrates disagreed with this.

Nietzsche disagreed with Socrates.

Do you believe that we are a sort of refined, transcended civilization, or that the truths that have applied to humanity for the last several hundred thousand years still apply today?

Does history have anything to teach us, or rather - you - here?

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This is exactly what I feared with putting Trump/Musk in office. Larry Ellison, Trump supporters and now one of the drivers behind Project Stargate, thinks an AI-powered police state is what the rest of us want. Great. Thanks. Hope your $0.99 eggs taste good.

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I’m not sure how to answer, it’s clear that humanity is transitioning. There is a paradigm shift taking place and where that leads us remains to be seen. Ai ethics and safeguarding are key areas as we go through these changes. I’m wondering who else in the developer forum might have a view on ways towards fairer more democratic systems. The potential for any powerful technology is that it may greatly improve quality of life and there is equal potential for harm.

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It is a concern I share. I think of Ai as transformational technology. I’m wondering how our community might join in the conversation and advocate for ethical safeguarding?

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I ran several "what ifs through gpt and Deepseek… be prepared.

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It doesn’t matter who sits in the offices, all the agendas are always the same, and they are publicly available, published by the planners and pushers of the agendas themselves.

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Sorry for the big gaps in replies. Lots of projects spinning, which I guess we can all relate to. I’m thinking that we’re at a moment where no-one really knows how things will turn out. What feels different to me about this moment is that we all, at least on the developers forum, have access to the most advanced and powerful technology. I think there’s a lot to be concerned about. Also there are very real opportunities for everyone to get involved with influencing the ways things develop. Would be great to hear from anyone else who’s throwing their hat in the ring.

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It’s not a “a fundamental misdirection”. It’s the result of unbridled capitalism. Until real values govern society instead of real dollars, this is what we get. I will note that there have been cultures around this world that have not had the problems so-called ‘civilized’ society has, but they have, or are being, wiped out.

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It doesn’t matter who sits in the offices, all the agendas are always the same, and they are publicly available, published by the planners and pushers of the agendas themselves.

To present another point of view, one can observe that, in addition to there being agenda setting, there is also agenda building. One can also notice a step forward for democratic process, a new AI-powered tool in the UK for analyzing public comments and consultations on regulations, laws, and policies: Consult.

To the other topics of the original post, I’ve thought about (worried about) police, drones, and US domestic policy. On the one hand, these could be “eyes in the sky” supplementing those cameras that police officers wear, on the other hand there are many slippery slopes to dystopias.

it feels like a fundamental misdirection of what AI’s potential could be.

Maybe some new videos could show interested audiences optimistic and hopeful visions of the future, in particular with respect to artificial intelligence? I remember that Microsoft, for example, used to make videos showing visions of the future: video 1, video 2. I, for one, enjoyed the videos; I haven’t seen any new ones recently.

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That’s interesting from the point of view of Data. I guess it would be a huge job to connect to all of those data points. Ai could do that and make sense of the data streams, analyse and use the information to inform communities of distortions in systems that are causing social and environmental harms, for example. IS anyone doing that? Maybe there’s people on the https://aiforgood.itu.int/

I’ll have a look. Thanks @Daller For me Ai Safeguarding is the most important area for anyone involved with it right now. More than the tools and models and AGI and all of that, it’s safeguarding and transparency and ethics. That’s just my view though. I guess developer communities around the world must feel strongly about it too.

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Absolutely. I see it that way too. The cultures you speak of are under threat and their voices need to be heard. Ai trained on wisdom traditions from around the world. You’re right about principles returning to the heart of how we organise ourselves instead of the pursuit of profit. That model is clearly unsafe. There’s no need for half measures with Ai safeguarding. Why not have safeguarding who’s goal is to protect and honour 7 Generations of humans? We can build that. I’m an ex school teacher. This is the first time technology has even remotely interested me. I worked in the same school for 20 years and saw what misuse of power does to a community at close hand. Unethical leadership is a huge threat. We need checks and balances that are robust. Going on a bit, but today is relatively free to catch up on communications. Thanks. I agree. I just think it’s up to all of us to get involved.

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It’s never the tools that are the problem, but always the motivations behind them. Whether something is useful or harmful, a tool or a weapon, ultimately depends on the motivations. I think this is a fundamental issue, regardless of the context. AI is now one of the new tool⇔weapon possibilities that has emerged, but the fundamental problem does not lie within AI itself.

It might be that this is the wrong platform to discuss such fundamental problems. Only when we have understood these underlying problems can we begin to find solutions and combine them with all existing tools. AI is just one of those tools. We need ethically and morally intelligent people, and they first need training.

I’m afraid that if we begin to discuss everything in terms of AI, it’s like trying to build a house starting on the fifth floor without having laid the foundation.

I can only recommend that everyone learn how the world really really works, truly and deeply. Depending on where you stand in your own process of realization, that might be a long and painful road. And I wouldn’t start with AI, because it’s just one element in the bigger picture, at least not before understanding all the other main components thoroughly. Only if one is capable of asking the right questions, can one find the right answers.

One thing is clear: AI, like any potential or resource, will be misused, in this world seriously. This will happen all the more as people with the wrong motivations get involved. And less if more really intelligent people understand that parasitism is not the winner team, and all empires failed and will fail.

Anyone who is familiar with this topic, has immediately text from countless scenes in many movies like: “The only thing I can offer you is the truth,” along with the promise that you won’t like it at all, and there for most will refuse it… (I hope this won’t be misunderstood, but for me, it often feels like trying to discuss quaternions with people who can’t count.)

This is just a tip that one doesn’t have to accept or follow. I haven’t always followed it myself. However, a platform primarily focused on technical problems is probably the wrong environment for this discussion. I believe that those who take this topic seriously should create a platform dedicated to it. And once some milestones have been reached, the information can still be presented on other platforms and offered for discussion.
But this should not stop you to talk here about your ideas!!!
It is very important to not only ask questions about the usage of AI, but to work on solutions.

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@Daller thanks so much. I do think a developers forum is a space for these kinds of discussions for people who are interested in Ai Ethics and SafeGuarding. It’s a place where philosophy and technology and science, lots of " -ologies “ all come together. It’s great to be able to at least have these conversations. I did a deeper dive and processed the output on notebookLM. I can post a link on here if you’d like to listen to it, but it would be public. If you prefer a proivate link then let me know and I’ll get it across to you. I do agree wiuth all you’re saying here. thanks,

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@01unitedkingdom i am very very happy about all people with a moral consciousness, witch try to find good solutions with the analytic helpers of AI. (i have my own ideas but no resources…)

You can post me Infos in a private message if you like, just keep in mind, nothing is really private.

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Hi Adam. Thanks for your thoughtful input. I’m very optimistic about the potential benefits of Ai. Especially like the video of the house in the woods. High tech and nature together is very appealing as a future scenario.

In terms of Consult the safe guarding issue seems to me transparency and accountability around the how ai is being used. For example in the case of consulting on public opinion there is scope for ai to spot patterns in the data that can be used to finesse the PR outreach of a favoured policy. for example, the government could find out through consult that when it comes to housing and planning regulations people are worried about loss of green spaces and increasing local rents. Instead of using the information to amend the legislation to mitigate for the concerns, the GOV could simply change the messaging and tall about affordable homes and green spaces. There’s a lotto discuss. I’m wondering how it will be if the safeguarding is built in to the Ai systems. I discussed your points of view with my Ai Model Pax. I’ve made a deepdive podcast of the output. I can share the link here but it would be public. If you’d like a private link let me know how to get that to you. Thanks for replying. Who’s voices are heard in the agenda building process? That’s another topic of interest. Thanks for joining in.

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If you’re okay with it I’d like to post the public link here for anyone interested in the conversation. Would that be okay with you?

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Sure! It is your information, so completely your decision.

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that sounds ominous. I’ve just finished reading Yuval Noah Harari’s book “Nexus”. The negative potentials of ai must be faced. Agree.

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AI for surveillance has got to be one of the most appealing low-hanging fruits and will be inevitable.

Maybe the EU will handle it correctly, hopefully. But then again they are constantly punished for their (sometimes misguided) attempts to try and prevent privacy invasions

It’s nice that we have people like Larry saying the quiet part out loud.

I agree with your post about it treating a symptom, not a cause. But that won’t stop them from trying :joy:

However, it’s not always an extreme of crime. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 1-3 years there will be programs that completely monitor and report on a person’s daily work schedule. Not only that, but their well-being and life OUTSIDE of work.

There’s people even on this forum peddling these solutions, despite the constant hallucinations and privacy issues that arise from it.

So, I’d see it like this:

Will it happen? Abso-freaking-lutely
Will people learn to game it? Abso-freaking-lutely

So how do we win? We do our best to try and enforce government regulation & transparency. It wouldn’t be too bad to have AI monitoring everybody. All government operations as well, no? Let’s (legally) stick some AI surveillance outside Larry’s house and report the day-to-day to Twitter.

I mean, sheesh. If it’s just used for traffic operations and happens to capture his stuff and identify it via AI, is it illegal? Double-edged sword, really.

Then have regulations to prevent complete surveillance from third-parties?

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