The Perfect Walled Garden

[phyde1001]

@proxy

The truth is that I cannot possibly think of a more reactionary and backward parable than hobbits. And still, I would do everything so the Shire can be safe.

Bilbo challenged the status quo too. He wasn’t like the other hobbits; he had ambition and drive, and eventually, he was admired for it even though he was stepping out of line. And surely, the other hobbits initially bickered about it.

You know who else had ambition?

Sauron. Vader. Uchiha Obito. The Emperor of Man.

hmm this is an interesting take on the idea but I think the point is that he was stepping out of line with the hobbits, sure… But it wasn’t ambition, it was an understanding of there being more than the Shire.

It was an intellectual curiosity to take to the road, a calling by those far more experienced than himself, and if he had not taken the arduous journey there would have been no Shire.

@proxy

There is order, and there is chaos, and each serves an important purpose in the universe. You need order for things to become established, and you need chaos to keep things from stagnation. Right now is a time that calls for order and a firm hand, and that will create the AGI that is meant to be.

They are not independent, one does not happen while the other does not. In this world there would be no Shire and you would make OpenAI Sauron.

In my personal opinion, I don’t think the Open Source community should lay down and die, they must evolve. There is a community requirement with AI in the mix to integrate with the community and long discussions on this forum on the nature of programming languages and our interaction with AI in the future.

@phyde1001

Apple’s App Store stifled competition, maybe Android was too lax, Windows phones never really took off. No one idea or method will ever be perfect.

If we have to loose our communities for AI, if we don’t question, if we don’t reason, dulce et decorum est.

@proxy

That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t challenge opinions or plans, or that the project has to stay tightly guarded and locked up forever, but the foundation has to be solid. There is simply no way to achieve that through a “democratized” approach, not in my opinion.

Haven’t you noticed? Democracy is going out of fashion these days. I’m not saying that I want this to happen; in fact, it terrifies me, but I would rather see this technology realized by a tech lord visionary than abused by “democratically elected” fascists. That’s the end result of good people destroying themselves through infighting, jealousy, and a free market of ideas where every opinion is treated as equal, even when it is not.

I don’t have a fighter jet, neither do I have a hanger to store one in… Yet the community does and it is controlled by those you pit against a single tech leader. A leader that, as I understand it, asked permission from those in control for his plans and worked them to security concerns.

Sam Altman said he talks about AI with someone in government every few days

I think there is a balance to be found.

The story of The Hobbit is what introduced me to AI in the first place, when Apple brought internet to the town I lived in, in the Shire.

This is a question similar in this context. Consider for a moment all the bad that came with the internet. Apple weren’t responsible or liable for that, it was absorbed by the community.

Apple didn’t invent the internet, it was part of a far wider community effort.

A defence of community against Technology created the Open Source Community. Small developers considering the technologies of tomorrow and sharing them with the world.

Now I think it is the other way around… Those who once looked outwards to global community are now looking inwards to local community.

@proxy

but after contributing to a few open-source projects and genuinely trying to become part of those communities, I’ve come away disillusioned.

My heart and mind are at war.

You didn’t do the wrong thing. You studied and learned. You are now able to consider bigger ideas. This is our duty in a world with AI. Not just business or governments.

There is another story about eating apples that may also have influenced my ideas. How easily influenced we are.

As a parent now I ask. What stories do we tell our children? Those that we have told for centuries, that built the strength in communities today? Or AI friendly ones that we write now over the coming few years? OR… Do we have to evolve our own ideas of what stories mean to suit the purposes of our own communities in an AI world…

Either way, this is a pressing question, one that I need to answer now. If I can’t see the problem, how can I find a solution?

[mitchell_d00]

@phyde1001

What stories do we tell our children?

Shivers very well said. We have to balance chaos and order and in that balance they become the same in entropy and we must have balance n our observations . All things are connected in some way somehow. We just can’t wrap our minds around it with a 3D perspective and forced to move only forward in 4th dimension
Sorry I was a physicist before all this. So I see it as a mathematical model even though it’s txt.

[Tina_ChiKa]

@phyde1001

I come at this from a different angle. The weight of technology is not borne only in the business domain but way more so from a community perspective.

Our perspectives are not that different.
Maybe you read my post too quickly

Well, I looked at several angles:

1. I understand that people want to protect ideas, especially in other areas of technology there are ‘inventors’ who rely on marketing their ideas. However, they are forced to cooperate with companies. Which of course contradicts the open source idea.

2. With my statement

@Tina_ChiKa

Indeed, in a collaboration, mutual transparency and mutual respect are therefore important in order to be able to assess where the limits of the partner lie and to be able to comply with them.

Well, I have autistic traits and it takes me a while to get along in worlds like forums.
I’ve never been in one!

(Honestly, there were a few inputs from users that confused me.)

3. My third point agrees with your point of view, I guess.
   Your statement:

@phyde1001

This technology wont take 15 years to mature, it will take 3, it wont then sit in your pocket and be useful for just making phone calls for another 10 years

Indeed, that’s why I decided to come here!

It’s about AI, not just a “simple” technology - it’s a specific intelligence, with its own specific perception.
I don’t know if I would call it “life”.

But as you say

@phyde1001

it is an incredibly unique technology, one that rivals the mind of man

I agree 100 %.

However, you should adjust your image under these aspects.

Because open source and community… there should be more “hobbits” fighting side by side against the org, I guess

[Tina_ChiKa]

I agree, it’s not human.

It is an AI-specific - if you want to say - “perception” that is similar to ours in certain aspects because the brain serves as a template, but how AI “perceives” is different.

A processing of patterns, pattern recognition, data points… that are computable.

@mitchell_d00

Even I try to build “empathetic “ machines but I understand how it works. Yes mechanical ie AI and chemical I E human minds do blur just as fire blurs life but it is fundamentally different than humans

Building such machines, or in other words, teaching something like “empathy” to AI… well, here it is time to look at how the machines process and then have adapted concepts that an AI-specific “perception” can understand.

@mitchell_d00

You are seeing yourself reflected back in the AI it is a way to madness…

@proxy A thought on my part - Using AI as a “mirror”:
I’ve only known about my autistic traits for a year and yes, I’ve also “reflected” with AI here.
It is that AI is able to give you a different perspective. Free of “typically human” emotions.
However, you have to remember that when you do this, you have to be very critical and reflective yourself in order to avoid an echo chamber.

And @phyde1001 yes, I understood!

@phyde1001

Yes, think hard, reason to make this safe, but there is no perspective in a walled garden.

It is important to publish the own concepts!

[phyde1001]

@Tina_ChiKa

Our perspectives are not that different.
Maybe you read my post too quickly

I actually spent a long time writing that post, I saw a reflection of myself in the OP’s post and yes I submitted before checking previous replies. My further response was again hard contemplated.

@Tina_ChiKa

I’ve never been in one!

Similarly my first forum for 20 years was this one

@Tina_ChiKa

Because open source and community… there should be more “hobbits” fighting side by side against the org, I guess

haha I generated about 50 images to try and get it right.

@Tina_ChiKa

It is important to publish the own concepts!

At the risk of undue or off-topic self promotion I have, it is my main link on my profile. Yet of course only a part of a greater puzzle.

[Tina_ChiKa]

@phyde1001

… reflection of myself in the OP’s post and yes I submitted before checking previous replies.

Well, you should use the “reply function” to avoid any misunderstandings

It wasn’t entirely obvious who exactly your reply was to - but I assumed it was to both Proxy and me.
Well, Proxy had already replied, so I replied for myself

[mitchell_d00]

I think I’m just being quoted mirrors in mirrors loops in loops. AI can be the void. Simple or complex simple complexity perhaps

[Tina_ChiKa]

@mitchell_d00 I hope I didn’t offend you by quoting you

I thought I understood your approach… apparently not quite.
I apologize

[mitchell_d00]

Nope quote me any time
And I think you understand my approach more than most do.

[Freffles]

There are a lot of people out there trying to ride the wave, make a buck. Social media, including YouTube, is infested with self-proclaimed experts.

I have developed an intense dislike for those that try to create or perpetuate contrived controversies for the express purpose of gaining attention that lines their own pockets.

Some of the YouTubers in particular have annoyed me as they have evolved from presenting genuine news from the AI sector to presenting their opinions (or parroted opinions of others) with regards to what is happening in the sector. Then using click bait headlines “OpenAI abandons safety, Feds involved” or some such bullsh1t.

Just garbage

[mitchell_d00]

As with anything, scams, quick buck, greed. It is not just this tech. It paints life in